Kuge: Flowers in the Sky – Talk 5
September 25, 1988 Dharma Talk by Dainin Katagiri Roshi
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Transcript
This transcript is in rough draft stage.
0:00
In the first paragraph:
The founder of Zen said, “One flower opens with five petals, forming a fruit which ripens of its own accord.”
(From Shōbōgenzō: Zen Essays by Dōgen, translated by Thomas Cleary.)
The founder of Zen is Bodhidharma.
I think the ancestors, any ancestors, any buddhas’ statements have a profound meaning, something more than a dualistic understanding. If you read, “One flower opens with five petals, forming a fruit which ripens of its own accord,” it seems to be a very common, understandable event which occurs in the human world always. But in terms of Buddha’s eye, I think this statement has a very profound meaning, more than the usual sense. That is the point which Dōgen Zenji tries to train us. Usually we understand the Buddhist teachings in common sense or in dualistic sense. It is alright, but I think in order to establish or build up your personality as a whole, I think you should understand the Buddha’s statement, the ancestors’ statement in a deep way. That is the point Dōgen Zenji tried to train us, tried to teach us.
So I think if you read this chapter, “Flowers in the Sky,” probably you don’t understand it. But it’s alright. Even if you don’t understand it, I think it has lots of meaning.
I don’t want to finish this chapter completely, but I think I tried to say the spirit of what Dōgen Zenji tried to say about Bodhidharma’s statement.
So, I think “one flower opens with five petals” – when one flower blooms, simultaneously five petals open. This is natural; this is understandable for us. But I think already we know that event, but that understanding comes from the analysis of event which has occurred in our everyday life. So one flower’s opening is separate from the five petals’ opening. In other words, spring comes, flower blooms; at that time spring is separate from flowers blooming. But the spirit or heart is that we should understand, we should realize unity or oneness of the one flower’s blooming and five petals blooming simultaneously. Otherwise, you don’t know, you don’t touch the heart or spirit of the flower’s life, blooming constantly in the whole world. Because flower is exactly the same as our life. So flower blooms in the whole world and the universe. That is the point we should try to accept [with] these flowers.
That’s why the Dōgen Zenji says,
One should study the time of this flower’s blooming, as well as its light and color.
What is the light of the flower’s blooming? I think the time of the flower’s blooming is the light of the flower’s blooming, which means the flower blooms in the unity of the whole world. That is the time of the flower’s blooming.
But in our knowledge, I think we understand the flower’s blooming is separate from other flowers’ blooming, and the trees’ existence and air’s existence; all are separate. But in this case we should understand the flower’s blooming as the unity of the whole universe. Because flower’s blooming is nothing but the total manifestation of the whole universe. That is called light; the light of the flower’s blooming.
Dōgen Zenji says the light means unity of the eyeball and cornea. Cornea and eyeball work together simultaneously. At that time you can accept the functioning of your eye, before you analyze the existence of eyeball and cornea. Cornea and eyeball working constantly together simultaneously before you think of it, just like your breathing, just like your heart beating. When you sleep, when you don’t do anything, under all circumstances your breathing is constantly working. So that is before you think. Regardless of whether you think or you don’t think, your breathing is working like that.
That is the point Dōgen Zenji mentions here. We should study the time of the light of your breathing. You should study the time of the light of your existence. Your existence is exactly the same and one with the whole universe. This is always we should practice this.
The multiplicity of one flower is five petals.
So one flower is not one flower, one flower is working in the quantity of the whole universe. Trees, birds, air, skies, the whole quantities are included in the realm of the one flower blooming. So that’s why multiplicity of one flower is five petals. So five petals [are] simultaneously one flower.
The opening of the five petals is one flower. So five petals are exactly the same and one with the one flower. One flower is completely manifested as five petals.
So from this point, one flower means the one Buddha, one single Buddha, a single Buddha of the whole world. That is one flower. Five petals are all kinds, everything, all sentient beings which exist in the human world. So trees, birds, pebbles, air, skies, and each event we have in everyday life: gassho, zazen, walking, sleeping, having a meal, washing your face – all activities are called five petals. So when you pick up a gassho, gassho is nothing but the single Buddha of the whole world. At that time gassho blooms with the whole world simultaneously. That is our practice.
The other day I read the passage of Dōgen’s statement which occurs on the commentary of the Precepts in Zen Buddhism. It says
There are various Buddhas. First there is Dharmakaya Buddha. The subtle nature is the source of Buddha. When you speak of it, it is called the omnipresent throughout the dharma world. At that time you cannot speak of a Buddha in the West or a Buddha in the East. There is a single Buddha in the whole world. Within this single Buddha there are the Medicine Buddha in the East, the Amitabha Buddha in the West. There is only Buddha and Buddha. At this time the skin and muscle of the Buddha must be manifested in the grasses and the trees without separating from blue, yellow, red, white, being and not being, form and mind.
So it says first, there are various Buddhas. In the various Buddhas in the Buddhist teaching there are three kinds of Buddhas: Dharmakaya Buddha, Nirmanakaya Buddha, and Sambhogakaya Buddha.
But first let’s [look at] the Dharmakaya Buddha. What is the Dharmakaya Buddha? “This subtle nature is the source of Buddha.” The subtle nature of the Dharmakaya Buddha is the source of Buddha.
What is the subtle nature of the Dharmakaya Buddha as a source of Buddha? “When you speak of it, it is called the omnipresent throughout the Dharma world.” So Dharmakaya Buddha means the omnipresent throughout the whole universe, dharma world. Dharma world is the world based on emptiness, the principle of emptiness, impermanence. That is called dharma world. So dharma world is the world we live in, all sentient beings live in.
So the source of Buddha means the real Buddha. The real Buddha is the omnipresent throughout the whole Dharma world, wherever you may be. When you pick up a single blade of grass in the field, that is Dharmakaya Buddha, source of Buddha. And when you pick up a table, this is the source of Buddha. When you do gassho, gassho is the source of Buddha.
So Buddha is the omnipresent throughout the whole world. That’s why next he says, “At that time you cannot speak of a Buddha in the West or a Buddha in the East.” Because if you say so, Buddha is separated from the Buddha in the East, Buddha in the West, Buddha in the South, et cetera.
So when you pick up a table, at that time this is nothing but a single Buddha in the whole world. It includes all Buddhas.
So what is that? It is called “a single Buddha in the whole world.”
Within this single Buddha, there are the Medicine Buddha in the East, the Amitabha Buddha in the West. So in the realm of a single Buddha in the whole world, then you can recognize the trees’ existence, birds’ existence, Buddha in the West, Buddha in the East. In other words, dualistic world open there.
So each of the dualistic world is nothing but single Buddha in the whole world.
That is our training. We try to understand like this. This is a practice.
How do we understand like this? “Table is Buddha” – we don’t believe this. Because in terms of human knowledge, table is something made by wood. And the table is something separate from the subject. This is a common understanding. And also the human society “proves” this understanding, which is “right.” But that is a way of understanding in terms of the human frontal lobe. In other words, human knowledge; that’s it.
In other words, we always see the human world, human beings in terms of [our] human telescope. Human telescope means human knowledge; that’s it. And then if you depend on human knowledge alone, strongly, our understanding becomes very narrow. So our understanding is not a perfect understanding, so understanding makes your life restless. Because no matter how long you believe your understanding is perfect or right, the understanding in terms of human knowledge is very narrow, simultaneously. So it makes our life restless, uneasy.
Because everything exists not like that, seen in terms of human knowledge. Everything exists in broad scales, supported by the whole universe, beyond our speculations. So this is the reality. Or this is Life with capital L of the tree, birds, pebbles, tables, sky, your life, gassho, washing your face – all are Life with capital L. Penetrating throughout the dharma world. That’s why life of gassho is very valuable, precious. Life of washing of your face is very precious for us. So we should take best care of washing your face, and gassho, with your wholeheartedness, instead of our emotions or feelings, our telescope of human knowledge. So beyond this one, anyway, first we should take best care of life of gassho, life of walking, life of standing in the field, life of seeing the sun, life of feeling the morning, with wholeheartedness. And then you can touch the life of nature, life of the sun, life of human beings. Through this we can have deep communication between nature and human beings.
So this is our practice. That’s why it says, “Within this single Buddha in the whole world, there are many Buddhas, there are many beings, animate, inanimate beings.”
So it means animate, inanimate beings should be taken care of in terms of a single Buddha in the whole world, which is completely different from all beings in the world in terms of human knowledge.
So that is called “only Buddha and Buddha.” So a grass in the field is a Buddha. You are Buddha. Table is Buddha. So Buddha and Buddha. At this time the skin and the muscle of the Buddha must be manifested in the grasses and trees, without separating from blue, yellow, red, white, being and not being, form and mind, etc.
So the important practice is to manifest a single Buddha in the whole world with you, in the realm of your body. Within the body, within the human body, a single Buddha must be manifested, a single Buddha in the whole world manifested.
So the whole world is something you should realize with wholeheartedness. When you do something with wholeheartedness then, the doing with wholeheartedness is simultaneously to realize a single Buddha in the whole world. Simultaneously. So it is not the business of human perceptions. You constantly do it with wholeheartedness, and then one flower blooms, within your body. Because five petals bloom – what do you mean five petals open? Five petals opening is not the idea of the five petals opening, it is nothing but activity in motion of five petals’ life. Five petals’ life is constantly opening; it is activities; it is energies which five petals’ life possesses.
So the same applies to our life, trees’ life, all life, life of all beings [is] like this. So that’s why “at this time the skin and muscles of the Buddha must be manifested.”
That is our practice. That’s why shikantaza. Shikantaza means do zazen with wholeheartedness. At that time, there is only one Buddha exists. One Buddha exists; this is [what we call] zazen. That spirit of zazen is alive in every area of the human world. When you do gassho, life of zazen, spirit of zazen is manifested there.
So the spirit of zazen manifesting … can be practiced always, every aspect of human life. Not [just] in the particular area, in the particular place, not in the particular opportunity.
A particular opportunity or particular place means a place of the gassho, place of the nembutsu – chanting the Buddha’s name – only through the practice of chanting of the name of Buddha, then you can manifest single Buddha in the whole world within your body. The rest of the aspect of the life, how can you manifest? It’s pretty difficult to manifest. In the rest of the aspects of the human life, washing your face, walking on the street, standing in the nature, and reading the book, and talking with the people, it’s very difficult, because they seem to be different from the practice of chanting the name of Buddha. But as Dōgen Zenji or ancestors mention, the spirit of zazen is penetrating every aspect of the human life: not only the gassho, not only the time of doing gassho, but also the time of washing your face, time of walking down the street, time of talking with people, time of reading the book, et cetera.
So that’s why Dōgen Zenji says “no need of incense offering, no need of chanting of Buddhist scriptures” in Bendōwa. It means when you chant, there is the spirit of zazen. So when you do zazen, there is only spirit of zazen. It is not necessary of thinking of other aspects of the human world. You can just do it. That is the key point of the spirit of zazen.
So “at this time the skin and the muscle of the Buddha must be manifested in grasses and trees without separating from the blue, yellow, red, white,” means any other beings. Being and not beings, form and mind.
So that is the point which Dōgen Zenji mentions here: one should study the time of this flower’s blooming as well as the light and color.
So Katagiri’s life at Hokyoji has its own time, the living at Hokyoji has the time of its color and light. “Color and light” is that Katagiri’s life is living, alive. Life is alive. “Life is alive” means to manifest the unity of the whole universe; that is being alive.
Being alive of eyeball is unity of eyeball and cornea. So Katagiri’s life’s being alive is unity of the whole world, trees, birds, all sentient beings in the past, present, future. This is Katagiri’s life in the present, being alive day to day. So I cannot see Katagiri’s life in terms of my ideas, my understanding. So I have to assume full responsibility for my existence. Full responsibility. No excuse.
Within the full responsibility, I cannot live, I cannot die, I cannot move an inch. For instance, if I bear full responsibility of Zen Center in Minneapolis, I cannot die, but I cannot live there, because it’s pretty hard to live in the realm of full responsibility for Zen center, for your whole life. Can I accept your whole life, everybody’s life? Can I take care of everybody’s life? I cannot do it. But on the other hand, I cannot ignore your existence, and I cannot ignore the existence of Zen Center in Minneapolis. So in many ways, I have to take full responsibility for this Zen Center situation, and everybody’s life. Within this full responsibility, what can I do? It’s pretty hard, but I have to live. But I cannot live exactly with pleasure, in terms of my egoistic sense, I cannot live, because it’s hard. Even though it is hard, I cannot die, because already I have to assume full responsibility for your life, for your Zen Center, toward the 21st century, anyway. What can I do? Nothing. But I have to; I have to do something, in the realm of reality which I cannot do anything.
This is “I have to take care of my life as a Buddha.” You should take care of your life as a Buddha in the whole world. Take care of your life as a Buddha in the whole world means you should assume full responsibility for your life. Because your life is not your life, your life is others’ life. You should use your life for the sake of others.
Your life is very precious, something more than you understand. Even if you don’t like it, you live, you have lived for many, many years. What makes your life be alive for many years?
So, this is the point Dōgen Zenji mentions here. So next I think,
Where the principle of one flower comes across is, “I originally came to this land to communicate the teaching and save deluded sentient beings.”
So this land, the land of the human world, is Buddha’s life, your life. Your life is Buddha’s life, okay? Buddha’s life.
So already Buddha’s life. The land of America is my life, okay? So […] I come to United States and teach – this is a dualistic understanding. At that time I cannot take full responsibility for this land, my life. This land is already my life, regardless of whether I come or not. At that time I can assume full responsibility for this land, for my life, for your life.
That is what? That is where I live in the realm of “single Buddha in the whole world.” In other words, the same and one ground of existence.
And then at that time I can accept all sentient beings, whoever they are. Beyond good or bad, right or wrong.
In other words, all sentient beings are, I always mention, just like a bunch of thread with lots of knots, okay? But anyway, I should accept softly, gently, and compassionately a bunch of thread with lots of knots. With compassion; anyway, first we should accept this, and then let’s work on it, one by one. This is everyday life. If you see a knot, this is called gassho – so you should take best care of gassho, a knot called gassho. And then the gassho follows another gassho, in the next moment. And also the gassho follows bowing as another knot. So very naturally another knot follows one knot. One knot follows many knots. And they’re working together. And then one by one, each of the knots is un-knotted. Loosened. In the realm of whole universe, where you can accept it softly, gently, first, before you analyze it.
Without holding, without accepting your whole life as a Buddha, how can you work on it? You cannot work on it. Of course you can work on it, but when you work on your life in terms of dualism, you create more problems – knots – because irritations, emotions, are always following. So you should accept your life as a single Buddha in the whole world, [that] means with compassion and generosity. For the long, long term, okay? Life after life. Anyway, this is a bodhisattva’s attitude towards human life. And then you can work on it with stability, with assurance and relaxation of your existence. In other words, calm mind. With the spirit and heart of your existence, you can work on it. Otherwise, you cannot take care of your life. That’s why I say we should assume full responsibility for our life.
So that is “Where the principle of one flower comes across is, “I originally came to this land to communicate the teaching and save deluded sentient beings.” Then naturally, “deluded beings” means all kinds of knots there. But all knots are loosened naturally day to day if you take care of them with compassion and kindness. Anyway, they are loosened. Where are they loosened? Not in the dualistic world; in the realm of a single Buddha in the whole world. That is the unity, or that is the same in one ground, the whole universe. And then all knots are loosened. Any kind of frame of suffering, pain, are all loosened there. And then this is called un-knotted life. Freedom, liberation we call it.
So very naturally, that is called “to communicate the teaching.” Through this we can teach, because we can touch naturally the right cord of human existence, of which all sentient beings are interconnected, interpenetrated. Very naturally, you can touch the core of existence. Then you can teach, you can communicate the teaching, and you can accept all kinds of knots, with compassion. That is called “to save all sentient beings.”
42:58
Where the light and color are sought must be this meditative study.
This is a seeking, seeking for the truth. Seeking for the truth is not temporary desire to seek, to get something. To seek for the truth is to continue to watch human life continually, forever, life after life. This is called to seek for the life, to seek for the human world deeply. Continuation; eternally, everlastingly continuation of seeking, watching the human life, human being, researching, exploring.
That is, here it says, “where the light and color are sought.” In other words, not researching the concept or idea of the human life or the tree’s life or bird’s life. We have to research the light of the tree, light of the bird, light of the human being, light of the suffering. “Light” means unity, unity of eyeballs and cornea. “Light or color” means everything is working interpenetratedly, intercollectively.
So, from this point, “Where the light and color are sought must be this meditative study.” This is the point we have to constantly be surrendering yourself to this. That is called to study or to learn, day to day. In other words, you should surrender yourself to a single Buddha in the whole world, from which you can see your life.
So, Dōgen Zenji says, “the self is arrayed in the whole world.”
But usually we see our life in terms of the dualistic world. But in order to know the panorama picture of your whole life interconnected, interpenetrated, whole world, every being, beyond the races and different cultures. You have to see your life arrayed in the human whole world.
[Tape change.]
First, your life as fully responsible. There are a bunch of thread with lots of knots. With compassion, with kindness, life after life, we should accept this life like this. And then, day to day, you should work on it.
That is called “seeing the self arrayed in the whole world.” Do you understand? Completely different way of taking care of human life than we do usually. We take care of human life completely egoistically or in the dualistic world. Do you understand? For instance, this kind of practice, everyone comes, but simultaneously how many emotions come up? And the physical hardness comes up, and then physical difficulty, physical hard practice is just physical difficulty. But if you continue to see this one, very naturally physical hard practice turns into the suffering. Which you create like or dislike. And then you don’t want to practice this.
So, we always see our life, take care of our life, we always see the self seen in the dualistic world, seen in the suffering. By which we create like or dislike. That’s why we should see the self arrayed in the whole universe. That means your life is working, alive, before you think, before you analyze, before you like or dislike. Anyway your life is going in the big scale. First, you should accept this life first. And then work on the small world, called gassho, hard practice, physical difficulty, or not physical difficulty, many things come up. That is called, I say, “knots,” lots of knots there. But as simply as you can, you should take care of [them], without turning that physical difficulty into the suffering.
So, that is “meditative study.” He says “meditative study”; meditative study means you should surrender yourself to this point. To learn human life – that is meditative [study].
50:00
Next is,
It is the forming of the fruit is up to your forming of the fruit …
So, forming of the fruit [is] cause and affect. Flower blooms and then the fruit comes later; this is the usual understanding. But in the Buddhistic understanding, I think cause and effect are the same. Because cause is “single Buddha in the whole world.” Effect is event, which occurs as a single Buddha in the whole world. So, Buddha appears as Buddha for its own life.
In other words, if you see sitting zazen here, let’s start to ask yourself, who makes you sit? Who asks you to sit? Again and again, you should research this [question], asking constantly. And finally, who can see? Finally, you can see who asks you to sit.
That who may be you. Or that who may be something more than you. You don’t know who. But that who, it may be you, but that you is not you. [It is] kind of energies coming up from the ground, like spring water.
You want to know something. You want to know something deep. And also your activities are backed by something deep. More than your effort. More than your effort, more than you think.
Why do you sit like this? Why do you get up in the morning? Who causes you to get up in the morning? Who asks you to get up? Schedule? No. Katagiri? No. This monastery? No. Constantly nothing. But you do it. Who makes you do?
So finally constantly if you ask yourself, who makes your existence be alive? Finally nothing. But there is something. Maybe that something is a kind of energy. Before you put the name on it.
That is called Buddha; we say Buddha. The self Buddha speaks of is the whole world. So the whole world, the self, Buddha is the whole world. We use a different term, but Buddha means the whole world. So basically the source of your life is nothing but the energies, called “functioning of the whole world”; that’s it.
So when energy of the whole world appears in the realm of zazen, it is called zazen. In the realm of gassho, it is called gassho. But the source of gassho is nothing but the energy in the whole world. That is called Buddha, we say.
So Buddha appears, we practice what? We have a cause; what’s the cause? The cause is Buddha. And then, we have this cause, that’s why we can practice it, we can practice cause. In other words, we can practice cause means we can practice the whole energies. In other words we can accept the whole energies, right now, in the realm of zazen; and then whole energy is called zazen, that’s why we can practice zazen. But zazen is a temporary name.
So what is a practice? Practice is a cause. But cause is the Buddha. The whole energies come up. Beyond self-compulsion others’ compulsion; nothing to force you. Nothing to force you; not your desire, not your effort. Nothing to force you, but energies coming up. That is living day to day, beyond suffering.
But it’s very difficult to see or to touch this. That’s why, let’s sit down. When you sit down, you can touch it, exactly.
So that is called Buddha. And then we practice Buddha as a cause, and then the fruit or effect is what? Buddha blooms. That’s it. Buddha blooms.
So very naturally Buddha [from] only Buddha and the Buddha. When you accept this whole energy in the whole world, in the realm of zazen, then fruits open as effect in the whole world. That is called zazen; fruit of Zazen.
So cause appears, effect are formed as a Buddha. So very naturally here it says, “the forming of the fruit is up to your forming of the fruit.” So what do we mean? That is, all you can do is from the beginning to end when you see zazen, let’s accept zazen as a source of energy. Not your Zazen; as a cause. “Cause” means as a whole energy, in the whole universe.
And then, what you can see? Zazen as a buddha? Enlightenment? But that enlightenment is Buddha in the whole world. So all you have to do is from the beginning to end, you should accept the energy in the whole universe, and see the energy in the whole universe as a cause, as an effect.
So what do I mean? Shikantaza. That’s it. From the beginning to end, just sit down, just sit down, just sit down. That’s it. Cause is just sitting; effect is just sitting. Because in the realm of cause, there is an effect there. Simultaneously.
So in the realm of Buddha, the original source of energy in the whole world, then we can manifest cause and effect.
Cause and effect are temporary names. But cause and effect exist. So today comes, tomorrow comes. Yesterday is gone, today is here. Naturally, cause and effect exist. But cause and effect exist where? Not in the realm of cause and effect we have put a name on, but in the realm of the original energies in the whole world. That’s it. So in the realm of original energy in the whole world, the name of cause and effect are loosened. As a what? As a Buddha. So original energy supports your life. When you sit down, naturally [there is] support. That’s why you can touch it. You can touch the something.
That is that here he says, “Forming of the fruit is up to forming of the fruit.” This is called “ripening of its own accord.” This is called maturity of your personality. Total personality is ripening; ripening constantly there. If you do it.
So how do we make our life mature? This is simple practice. Very simple practice. Day to day. Then, your life is mature.
When I was young, I couldn’t believe this. My original teacher and also second teacher always said Buddha’s teaching is not something excited, but practice in everyday life. I didn’t believe this, because everyday life is nothing particular. Get up in the morning and have a breakfast, and study, and go to work, and something like this. Always the same thing is going. So I didn’t believe this is a practice, this is a place, this is a vivid passage to make my life mature. I didn’t believe this. But this is really true. Okay? Day to day. Anyway, all we have to do is like this.
That’s why a sutra (the Song of the Jewel Mirror Samadhi) says, “Like a fool, like an idiot.” You know? “Just to accomplish the continuation of this practice; this is called the host within the host.” Do you remember? This is the essence of the Buddha’s teaching.
But still we need something, understanding the depth of human existence in terms of Buddha’s teaching. That’s why we teach Buddha’s teaching.
So we try to understand the Buddha’s teaching, but in the emergency case of our everyday life, we should do it. Because life is an emergency case. [Someone laughs.] Nobody knows the next moment. Okay? I’m happy today, right now, but next moment, not happy. Who makes me unhappy? I don’t know. I may? Maybe. But there’s something more than my will, my effort. I am alive now, but next moment nobody knows where Katagiri is going. To life or to death? I don’t know. Nobody knows. From this point, life is really an emergency case.
But our head doesn’t believe in the emergency case of life. Too busy. [Laughter.] But in the emergency case, life is busy, but strictly speaking, it’s very calm, simple life. Take a telephone, call the doctors. You know? That’s it. Simple practice. But the head is always looking around, analyzing, synthesizing, creating like and dislike, and everything is made into suffering. And then we hate it. If we hate it, that makes nothing to encourage you. All are turned down.
So, I think in the emergency case, it seems to be busy, but the practice is very simple practice, so-called still. Very still and calm.
This is the teaching of shikantaza. Day to day.
Do you have questions?
1:06:17
- I wanted to ask you to say something on how we can see the knots as Buddha?
Well, I think if we accept knots with generosity and compassion, with your warm heartedness, then knots become Buddha.
- So they become Buddha.
Yes. It becomes Buddha because you can deal with it, you can work on it, with calm mind. So knots are not separate from you. Knots come into your life. And you come into the knots. So that’s why knots turn into the Buddha.
Buddha means whole world, where all sentient beings are working together. Without any gap between. This is a Buddha, we say.
1:07:22
- I was wondering is that kind of questioning about who is sitting, who asked you to sit or who – various questions – where you saying that that kind of investigation should be done during zazen?
No, not during zazen.
- This kind of contemplating?
Well not during zazen. Instead of creating delusions, let’s research that one. Do you understand what I mean? Instead of creating delusions, thinking something, anyway thinking that one. That’s pretty good for you. Sometimes. Not always. [He laughs.]
Because this is a very important thing in which you can touch the core of your existence, the core of your activities in motion, day to day.