Arts and Buddhism
October 29, 1983 Dharma Talk by Dainin Katagiri Roshi
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Summary
Katagiri Roshi discusses the true purpose of Buddhism, which intersects with a discussion of the arts and their relation to sunyata (“emptiness”). Life and death should be seen in terms of the way (bendo), not in terms of satisfying our desires.
Transcript
Part 1
Listen to Part 1 on mnzencenter.org
Katagiri Roshi: [I went through] Customs, and the officer asked me, “What is [your] purpose of going to the United States?”
[Laughter.]
So I said, “I am already living in the United States.”
She asked me, “Are you a citizen of America?”
I said, “No. I have permanent residence.”
But still I am a foreigner, so she continued to ask me, “You should write down what [is your] purpose of going to the United States.”
So I wrote down in Japanese, “[unintelligible],” which means going back home.
[Pause, followed by laughter.]
Actually, if you are Japanese, you have to go back to Japan; that is called “going home.” I am not American, so the purpose of coming to the United States is not actually going home. But I wrote “going home” unconsciously. So she said, “It’s funny! You are Japanese. Why do you say ‘going home’?”
So I kept quiet. [Laughter.]
Anyway. I don’t know which is my home, but I am coming back. I am already in the United States, and I am very happy to practice again here.
1 - 2:05
This time, when I [went] back [to Japan], I felt many things [about] Buddhism in Japan [and] the United States. […] There are lots of things I would have to think [about]; how […] I should deal with Buddhism in the United States or in Japan. I don’t know exactly what to do. But very naturally I realized that there are many problems, many questions, in American Buddhism. But not only in American Buddhism – in Japanese Buddhism, too.
Dogen Zenji continually mentions bendo, [which] means literally “transaction of the way,” or, what would you say… bendo is usually translated as “practice,” but bendo is something more than practice, because [it is] something you have to do, practically. So bendo means literally “transaction of the way,” or sometimes people translate it as “negotiation with the way.” But [this] transaction of the way or negotiation of the way means to expend one’s every possible effort or energy into the way. Constantly the focus of your effort or energy should be on the way.
So Dogen Zenji [says that] this bendo shouldn’t be seen in terms of life and death, but life and death should be in terms of bendo. This is a very important point [that] Dogen Zenji mentions.
Buddhism is nothing but religion, but I don’t know the meaning of this term religion in English. But anyway… well, let me say [that] Buddhism is religion in the common sense. So if Buddhism is religion, Buddhism [should be something giving] perfect peace or harmony to human beings. This human being shouldn’t be considered in the realm of human desires, but [rather] this human being should be considered in terms of the equal level of all sentient beings, including trees, birds, et cetera. At that time, human beings can live in peace and harmony.
If you think [of] human beings just in terms of human beings, so-called human beings have lots of desires, lot of greediness. If you consider human beings just in terms of human being, very naturally the rest of the beings are separate from human beings, so very naturally you cannot live in peace and harmony. So in Buddhism we always think [of] human being in terms of [the] perfect equal level with all sentient beings; at that time we are called human being. So human beings [are] what? Human beings are not human beings, human beings are all beings. Then you can live in peace and harmony.
So for this, you cannot consider human beings always in terms of human desires. Human desire means always we want to satisfy. We want to satisfy the human desire, human feelings, always, wherever you may be. At that time, even [if] you get something which seems to make your life happy, it’s not real peace, real harmony.
So at any cost, if you want to live in peace and harmony, we have to see human beings in terms of Buddha’s teaching, or the Way, going beyond [the] conscious or unconscious attempt [to satisfy] human desire.
So that’s why Buddhism always emphasizes emptiness. Or egolessness.
But if you look at Buddhism in the United States or in Japan: it seems to be very active. Particularly in the United States, Buddhism seems to be very active, helping human beings. It seems to be good. But I don’t know; it is questionable. I really feel it’s questionable. Because Buddhism is used always for the sake of [the] conscious or unconscious attempt [to satisfy] human desire. If Buddhism doesn’t help, or if Buddhism [doesn’t] satisfy your human desire, you don’t pay attention to it.
[…] Look at Buddhism in the United States: Buddhism always tries to be considered in terms of help; in terms of the help [for] human beings, the human world. [Seen] from different angles: philosophy, psychology, and biology, and dance, and arts, et cetera. So that’s why Buddhism in the United States seems to be very active.
And then somebody says Buddhism in the United States is best, rather than Buddhism in Japan. But this is nothing but arrogance. So it’s very dangerous.
But this time [travelling back to Japan,] I felt [that] Buddhism in United States, Buddhism in Japan [are] no different. The same.
So that’s why Dogen Zenji [says] that from generation to generation, the buddha way, or bendo – bendo means expending your every possible effort toward the Way. The Way means beyond human desires, okay? There is a Way, which [is] feeding you always perfect peace or perfect harmony there, even though you don’t understand. So all we have to do is to expend our every possible effort or energy toward that.
For this, bendo shouldn’t be seen in terms of life and death. Completely opposite: it ought to be, rather, completely reversed. Life and death should be seen in terms of bendo. Do you understand that? It’s very important.
If you see the buddha way in terms of life and death, it means Buddhism is used for the sake of human desire: always checking, evaluating, whether Buddhism is useful or not. In other words, you’re always [pulled] Buddha’s way, or the Way, [which is] giving you perfect peace and harmony toward the human world. What is the human world? The human world is full of the attempt of satisfying human desires. In seems to be good, but on the other hand, [there are] lots of problems. So that’s why we want to practice zazen and we want to follow the Buddha’s way. Why do you practice Buddha’s way?
So that’s why Dogen Zenji [says] that bendo shouldn’t be seen in terms of life and death. If you see bendo, [the] buddha way, in terms of life and death, you always try to evaluate, judge, think [about] Buddhism, always checking whether Buddhism is useful or not.
At that time, such a Buddhism doesn’t last forever.
For a certain period of time, Buddhism, of course, lasts. Maybe the twentieth century? But not the twenty-first century. If Buddhism is real religion which gives perfect peace, perfect harmony, beyond races, beyond the way of thinking, it should last forever, from age to age.
For this, even [if] you don’t feel good from Buddhism, you don’t see anything whether Buddhism is useful or not. We have to continue to expend our every possible effort toward the Way: what [is] real peace, what [is] real harmony.
It seems to me that peace means perfect harmony. Perfect harmony means the human world and also something more than the human world come together, live together; that is called harmony. Not only the human world. Not only the human beings and tape recorders, trees, birds, nature [that] you can see come together; I don’t mean that. The phenomenal world which you can see and also [the] not-phenomenal world, beyond-phenomenal world, come together, live together in peace. At that time it is called harmony.
Harmony is not to shake each-other’s hand [and say,] “Good morning. You are a good boy, you are a good friend,” et cetera. That is also harmony, but it doesn’t last for long. So we have to shake hands, [but] what kind of hand should we shake? It’s not the human hands. We have to shake with the universal hands.
So that’s why Dogen Zenji [says] that life and death should be seen in terms of bendo.
That means that there is a sense of negation of human beings, human desires. You cannot always satisfy your desires. If you want to satisfy your desires, I don’t think it’s necessary to practice the buddha way, you know? Or religions [in general]. Why [would] you practice religions? In the usual world, there are lots of things which make your life satisfactory. So [you’d be better practicing] other things, rather than Buddhism or religion.
Anyway, Buddhism as a religion, I told you before, gives you perfect peace and harmony, which means something beyond what you have thought [or] you think. So this is maybe a little bit against your human desires, because you don’t understand it. If you don’t understand it, you don’t want to do it, you don’t want to follow [it]. So even though I emphasize that, “Just sitting is perfect peace; why don’t you sit down,” … if you don’t feel good, you don’t want to do that. Don’t you think so?
1 - 20:30
Well, not only Buddhism as a religion, but whatever you do.
Here is a very interesting article, written by [a] Japanese philosopher. The title of this article is “The Practice of Sunyata.” Sunyata means emptiness. Let me read this one paragraph, [where] he [talks] about the Japanese literary arts or Japanese art.
The inference of the Zen sect lay rather in permeating the life of the age with its Zen spirit, and from here, in intellectually influenced the form of art. As arts under its influence we can cite the Noh drama, gardening, tea ceremony, sumi-e painting, and so forth. Every one of these arts has a common point that the moment of negation lies at its core.
Well, not only art! Being – human being, or your presence, lies in continuous negation. At its core, underlying essence, [there is] always negation, because it’s emptiness. Emptiness means full function; nothing to import your ideas, your feeling into it. This is a basic picture of being. So philosophically, we say emptiness.
So broadly speaking, emptiness means to give perfect freedom toward human being. Because basically, emptiness means you are free.
So that is negation. Negation means [that] whatever you think, good or bad, right or wrong, all are negated. At its core, underlying essence, always it’s negated. That means it is emptied, by something. We don’t know what it is. But we call [it] dharma, or et cetera.
So, “Every one of these arts has a common point that the moment of negation lies at its core…”
The action of the Noh drama has the foundation of its distinctive form on the point that it snatches away every human peculiarity from the movement of men. That is the actor.
You know the Noh drama? If you see the Noh drama, it’s kind of [a] dance, but the dance is moving very slow. So [there is a] human actor as a human being acting, but there is no particular human peculiarity.
The same applies to ballet, or other dance. The dancer should be human, but if you really want to represent the perfect beauty of ballet, the human peculiarity must be negated, right in the middle of the action of the dance. At that time, you can really represent perfect beauty of dance. That is ballet.
So, if you see the Noh drama, the actor moves very slowly. In common sense, […] it’s really boring – just like a tea ceremony. You don’t like a tea ceremony because there is no particular movement, and [it is] very quiet. Nothing to expect as a reward. [He chuckles.] If you drink [the] tea, it’s really bitter, not sweet. And also you must practice patience, sitting calmly. And then what you can see or hear is just the sound of the kettle, and the activities of the host, nothing else. And the place is very small. Nothing to excite you.
And also,
… hence, as its opposite form, it was possible to bring about later the puppet theater, in which all the peculiarities of man were exaggerated and instilled into the movement of the puppets, which were the actors.
You understand this one, okay? Actor is completely perfect. But if you just deal with the puppet as a puppet, you are not a real puppet, you are not a real actor. So the actor is a puppet, but puppet is not puppet, puppet is completely negated at its core. There is no certain form which is called puppet. It must be represented as a human being. At that time, the puppet really acts on the stage, which is very attractive.
So, always there is a puppet, which seems to be dead, but it’s not puppet, it’s negated at the core.
If you act as a human being on the stage, you mustn’t act as a human being. Human being as actor should be negated. And then, you can manifest the perfect beauty of the dance there.
So always there is a contradiction there. But this is very true.
So if you want to seek for perfect peace, or the Way – in Buddhistic terminology it is called Way – the Way means perfect harmony. If you want to seek for the Way, you must be [an] actor as a human being, but you mustn’t be human.
But look at Buddhism in the United States, in Japan. We are always acting as a human being. We don’t see anything else. So that’s why it makes you busy every day. […] Human beings are always just like a wild pig, rushing into a certain destination to satisfy their desires. So, no peace.
Similarly, the form of sumi-e, black ink painting, has for its essence that negation of all colors which nature possesses.
This is sumi-e paining. Or even Western painting. What would you say, the famous painter in the Middle Ages in Europe, what’s his name… Renoir? Look at his painting. It’s very bright, beautiful color there. But, he doesn’t use color which nature possesses. He completely digested the natural colors. So maybe [there are] dim colors, but within the dim colors or mixed colors, there is a perfect bright, natural color there. So he seems to be an expert [on] how to use the color which nature possesses. Don’t you think so? I felt [so], anyway, from his painting. So if you alway express natural color which you can see, it’s not alive, it’s dead. But he knew how to represent natural color. That’s why his painting is beautiful.
So I am talking about not only the Japanese arts. Through the Japanese arts, I am talking about general art, in Europe, in the United States, wherever you may go. This is real [truth].
This also produced it’s opposite form in the Momoyama Period …
That is almost the 16th century.
As for gardening, it’s acme lies in the complete erasement of artificiality.
It’s very interesting. Somebody said the Japanese garden is a miniature of nature. […] So if you say the Japanese garden is a miniature of nature, well, that miniature of nature is something artificial, don’t you think so? Artificial. But it’s artificial because it’s made by humans, but it’s not artificial. That’s why it is difficult […] to represent nature in a small area. It’s very difficult, because you must be [a] human being, but you shouldn’t be [a] human being, because you must be trees, birds, whole nature. You’re completely negated. When you are negated, you become nature. When you become nature, very naturally there is very smooth communication there, before you think. This is the practice of gardeners.
And the tea ceremony attempts to make the men’s life egoless.
Yes [it does]. First of all, [for] anyone – if you are interested in [it] or even if you are not interested – let’s participate in a tea ceremony. Immediately you think, “What’s that?” [He chuckles.] Because [there is] nothing to satisfy your feeling. So that is already [that] your egoistic sense is erased. When you sit down there, immediately your egoistic sense is erased. Just like zazen. [He chuckles.] Sit down. Then you don’t feel anything. That is pretty good, because egoistic sense is erased, perfectly, before you think. Whether you want it erased or you don’t want it erased, it’s erased, the moment when you sit down there. That is called shikan.
So you cannot try to erase [the] egoistic sense, because you have [it] already. So the more you try to erase the egoistic sense, the more you create the egoistic sense. So how can you erase ego? That is a most important question you have to take into account in your whole life.
And also he says, continuing about the tea ceremony:
This can also be said about the tea ceremony. The guests at the tea ceremony will not experience the art of tea if they merely appreciate the decorations of the tea room or the host activities in the tea ceremony. Unless the guests live together in the tea room, the creation itself of the tea ceremony will not be accomplished. The charm of the tea ceremony can be realized by the participation of the guests, as well [as] in it’s creation.
Creation means… you cannot create your own life, confining in your small territory, so-called I. You cannot create. Creation means you have to realize your own life, which is fully alive with all sentient beings. At that time, it is called creation, creating life. You are there, but you are not you. Your life must be one with all nature, all sentient beings. At that time, your life is called creative. Very creative life.
So, to attend the tea ceremony is to create your own life. But your own life [is] not your own life, because your life is harmonized – with the host, tea kettle, tatamis, [the] small area of the room, and nature – through which you can see one flower in the altar alcove. You can see nature, the fully alive rhythm of the seasons, so-called autumn, through the one flower in the alcove.
And he says:
Therefor, there must be very sympathetic, compassionate consideration made on the part of the host, to make the guests forget all worldly affairs.
That’s pretty good, you know?
Part 2
Listen to Part 2 on mnzencenter.org
At the same time there must be readiness on the part of the guests to be immersed in the heart of the host.
Katagiri Roshi: […] Yes it is.
The practice of zazen is to make you forget all worldly affairs. That’s why in Fukanzazengi, Dogen Zenji [says], “Throw away all affairs.” Even good and bad, right and wrong – anyway, sit down. This is the total picture of zazen; just like a tea ceremony.
So the tea ceremony is… what would you say… the artistic expression of religion. Not the religious expression of art. Do you understand that difference?
So the purpose of zazen is to make you completely forget all worldly affairs, and simultaneously there must be a very compassionate consideration, [in] which there must be readiness on [your part] to be immersed in the heart of zazen. If you just be there, it’s not good enough, because still you cannot be immersed in the real heart of zazen or the tea ceremony.
For instance, nature. If you go to the wilderness, if you are just right in the middle of the wilderness, you completely forget […] worldly affairs. Completely beyond [whether] you try to forget or you don’t try to forget. So what is real nature? What is the heart of nature? The heart of nature is [for you to completely forget] worldly affairs.
But forget doesn’t mean ignore. To forget worldly affairs means you can see the worldly affairs from a completely different angle; this is called to forget. Not [to] destroy, not to keep away from worldly affairs. Because your body and mind are already nothing but the worldly affairs. So what does it mean [to forget] worldly affairs? If you see worldly affairs in terms of worldly affairs, you never have a chance to see the depth of the worldly affairs, how sublime it is. So you have to see worldly affairs from a completely different angle. That is something beyond your attempt of satisfying your desires. That is the total picture of nature.
So, just be there. Go. Sit down there.
That’s nature, wilderness. Just like zazen.
But is that enough for us, just be there? No. Still there must be compassionate consideration, that […] you must be ready to be immersed in the heart of nature. Because, if you just be there, very naturally your desire appears and disappears, appears and disappears, so very naturally, you mishandle nature. Because you are already worldly affairs, so worldly affairs always demonstrates yourself as good or bad, right and wrong, failure or success, et cetera. So if you don’t feel good, you can destroy the nature. So nature is always used by your desires. This is human beings.
So very naturally, you cannot hurt the heart of nature if you are there. As much as possible, you must bring the harmony to your life, and to the rhythm of nature. For this, you should accept the rhythm of nature, which it possesses in itself.
And also you must always try to tune into the rhythm of real nature, what the real nature is. You have to tune in. That is human effort.
That is called bendo, okay? Bendo; we say practice. Bendo means [to] expend your every possible effort or energy toward the way, not for the purpose of satisfying your desires. Toward the Way. The Way means perfect harmonious rhythm of nature, wilderness. So you cannot hurt [it].
So that’s why here it says, “At the same time there must be readiness on the part of the guests to be immersed in the heart of the host.”
That is, a sympathetic frame of mind must exist.
So how can you tune into the heart of the wilderness? That is by your sympathetic consideration, compassionate consideration – from moment to moment, constantly.
In other words, it is called bendo. That’s why bendo is translated [as] “negotiating” with the Way. Dancing, or making suits, or making a dress – whatever it is. There is no particular pattern, [like] “this is perfect dance,” or “this is perfect pattern to create your dress.” No. Completely you should forget it. [That is] human desires. And then all you have to do is keep your eyes open always figuring out the way, how to make, how to create – fashion, or dance – from moment to moment. So creating dance is really alive; not [the] idea of dance.
And then after creation of dance, then the people see it and think it or consider it, and then we can make a frame, of “what is the creative dance you have practiced.” That is something written in words, in a book. Instruction of dance. But real dance must be creative.
So your life is creative. Not only the Buddhistic practice. Whatever you do, or whatever occupation you follow, always underlying essence there is negation. The negation is not to destroy you, or to reduce, or to make yourself small. No. To enhance you, to make yourself bigger, in a sense. But according to common sense, if your ego is negated, you don’t feel good, because [the] self is not accepted. But if you really want to be something – photographer, or whatever it is – as a human being, if you really want to be a real human being from moment to moment – as a student, as a teacher, as a zazen practice, as a housewife or janitor, whatever – you must be actors, but you are not human actors.
You must be a puppet, in a sense. But if you become a puppet, it’s not a puppet: you have to instill the all human spirit into the puppet. At that time, the puppet is really alive.
Puppet means your object, in a sense, in your everyday life. Broom, cushions, vacuum cleaners, toilet paper: just like a puppet.
So you have to deal with a puppet in toilet paper, but toilet paper is not a real puppet you are dealing with. So toilet paper must be something you install your spirit into. At that time, toilet paper as a puppet really acts [on] the stage. That is called beauty of the puppet show.
That’s why Dogen Zenji always [talks about] not only doing zazen but everyday life, how to deal with everyday life.
2 - 12:28
So while I [was] in Japan, [and] after coming back from Japan, I have to think [about] Buddhism in the United States again and again. I don’t know what to do; I cannot find yet [a] concrete aspect how to deal with [it]. But what I can tell you is, the Buddhism in the United States in Japan, which is always used for the sake of [attempting to satisfy] human desires – that’s why it’s growing big. But I don’t know if it is good or not. It’s really questionable.
That’s why Dogen Zenji [says] bendo mustn’t be seen in terms of life and death, your life and death must be seen in terms of bendo. So Buddhism mustn’t be seen in terms of life and death. Life and death must be seen in terms of [the] buddha way; perfect harmony. At that time, we have to consider Buddhist practice more seriously. So far, we haven’t considered Buddhist practice seriously, as a whole.
For instance, becoming a priest, or lay Buddhist: it’s questionable, anyway. We don’t know what to do, but I have to think about this. What’s the difference between becoming a priest or not becoming a priest?
We always emphasize this practice of zazen. If you emphasize only the practice of zazen, it’s not the total picture of Buddhist practice. It’s kind of [like] pizza without [the crust]. [He laughs.] You can call it pizza, but there is no crust. If you always emphasize zazen as a Buddhist practice, you know? It seems to be good, but it’s nothing but pizza without the crust. So it is a little bit crooked.
We say with the red rice, sekihan means red rice, used for the celebration of something. Japanese people cook the rice with red beans in it, which is used for the celebration of something. So we say, “just like red rice with no red beans.” Do you understand? Just like a pizza without crust.
So very naturally you become [zazen-itis]. [There are a couple laughs.] If you become [a zazenitist], it’s pretty difficult to get out from that, and you don’t understand what real zazen is. And on the other hand, if you always emphasize daily life, it’s also daily-life-itis. So you don’t understand why you practice zazen.
You have to think once more again about what daily life is. Zen students always emphasize daily life, but you should consider once again what the daily life is. Dogen Zenji [talks] in Shobogenzo about daily life. You can see it in the book How to Raise an Ox. The idea of everyday life Dogen Zenji mentions is completely different from [what] you have thought. [He laughs.]
So lots of questions in Buddhism in the United States. And in Japan too.
Do you have questions?
2 - 18:37
Question: Hojo-san? Is the desire for perfect peace and harmony a human desire?
Katagiri Roshi: Yes… You mean seeking for perfect peace and harmony? Yes, it is also human desire. So you have to deal with [it] carefully, okay? What is real peace, real harmony? But without your desire, you cannot seek.
But […] constantly your effort must be focused on real peace. That is called bendo.
But real peace, real harmony shouldn’t be seen in terms of life and death, so-called desire. Satisfying desires constantly, whatever it is – good or bad, right or wrong – we always do it like this. That’s why human civilization is developing pretty well. But I don’t know [if] development of human civilization is good for human beings or not. I don’t know. You can see very naturally, what is it? Do you understand that?
Same person: My question has to do with, if Buddhism wanted to satisfy human desires, is that the real Buddhism.
Katagiri Roshi: No, it’s not the main purpose. You have to go through [it], but it’s not the main purpose.
Same person: But to know that we are not different from trees and birds. To know the truth of that.
Katagiri Roshi: Sure… “To know” is already questionable, because to know that we are not different from trees, birds, et cetera, means already you see the trees, birds objectively. That is called to know. Alright? It’s not something to know: you must be trees and birds. Alright? [He laughs.] That’s why it’s very difficult, that’s why we have to continually practice, in your whole life. Otherwise, you always [have] Buddhism which you have known, or you have felt. It’s pretty good, because you practice it, or you feel it, so feeling very naturally can be experienced. But it’s not the real one.
2 - 22:13
Question: Roshi? I have a small message. I talked to C.J. Liu (Chun-Jo Liu) recently, she teaches Chinese at the University of Minnesota, and she’s returned recently from China. Her special interest is the study of Buddhist chants. She’s travelled widely in China over a number of years and on several trips for this purpose. And this time when she was in China she went to western China, and she met there a priest who told her that the Buddhist community in China today is self-supporting, that they are not having to depend on government support now. But what I wanted to mention in particular is that he said that he would like her to convey a message of peace to American Buddhists.
[Pause.]
Katagiri Roshi: [Yes,] we have to think about Buddhism giving constantly real peace.
But it’s very easy for us to misuse Buddhism. If you misuse Buddhism, immediately you cannot give real peace.
Misuse means Buddhism is used for human excitement, human satisfaction.
I don’t know whether it is real peace or not. We have to think of it.
Science is physics and biology. Are modern physics and modern biology developing very well and helping human life? Yes they are… but still it’s questionable. Because we are always using physics and other sciences for the sake of attempting to satisfy human desires, constantly. “Better life, better life,” constantly. Yes, it’s very helpful for us, but it’s really questionable.
Question: But do the two have to be in contradiction?
Katagiri Roshi: Yes, it seems to be contradiction, but it’s not contradiction. But when you think two, immediately our thinking creates the idea of contradiction.
Same person: Well, I’ve always had this idea of an ideal society that would both make our egos happy, and yet at the same time we would find bendo…
Katagiri Roshi: Sure; it’s very naturally there. That’s why we have to consider carefully what egoistic happiness [is].
I don’t mean you should ignore; I don’t mean egoistic happiness should be combined with not-egoistic happiness. I don’t mean that; [not] mixed-up. Egoistic happy, not-egoistic happy. Egoistic happy: something more than egoistic happiness there. Very naturally, if you say egoistic happiness, [then] something more than egoistic happiness [is] there.
For instance, if I’m sick. Well, maybe in terms of [the] egoistic, I don’t feel happy, because I am sick. But on the other hand, there is a happiness, more than the egoistic happiness. So what is this? This is [that] all I have to do is sit down there and take care of sickness, et cetera. That is really something you have to practice.
So maybe there is a happiness something more than egoistic happiness. So […] if you say egoistic happiness, there is something more than that.
So I don’t mean you should ignore either one of them – or you cannot combine [them], mix them up – because you can see either one of them in the process of time. When you see egoistic happiness, egoistic happiness appears, not anything else. You cannot see other things. Do you understand? If I feel sad, sadness is there, and the whole world becomes sadness. [He laughs.] When the autumn comes; today is a very nice, fine autumn day, so it makes you feel good, don’t you think so? But completely opposite weather: storm and autumn – everyone feels melancholy. Don’t you think so? Not only you; I feel too. So when you feel melancholy, you feel the whole world becomes melancholy. So when you feel melancholy, melancholy appears, nothing else.
So, I don’t mean you [can] ignore this. So I say, you have to consider this melancholy you have felt once more, carefully. What [is the] melancholy? From where [does it] come? The first step when you start to consider or realize it once again with careful attention, [is] turning your new leaf. Realization, to realize something, leads you to enter a new life. So when you realize once again egoistic happiness, then you can enter. This is the first step which you can enter into new life, which is called not-egoistic happiness. So that is our actual practice we have to do every day.
But it’s pretty easy for us always to be bogged down with one side, a one-sided idea. That’s why be patient, and don’t rush into it: think of it, and deal with the problem which you have faced with calm mind. That practical aspect.
So two contradictory aspects means, when you think in the level of human consciousness, everything becomes contradictory. But each of them, basically it’s not contradictory, it’s very harmonious. Trees, birds, wilderness, nature – American, Japanese – the underlying essence is very harmonious. That’s why when we see the human world, why are we always fighting? Why are we fighting each other, killing each other’s life? Just now.
2 - 32:35
Question: Hojo-san?
Katagiri Roshi: Hai.
Same person: I would like to relate a little story which relates to most of what Roshi has talked about today. It’s had a profound affect on me.
About three months ago, when I was bowing in South Dakota, I had an experience that was really quite unusual for me. It was a very hot day, and I was very angry. I was bowing in a state where about a total of four people had spoken to me. And I really questioned why I was doing all of this, and I was getting angry, because nobody was paying attention to me. Well, one day this old dirty farmer, who drove up in this old dirty car, came up, and he watched me bow for maybe a couple of minutes. And then, when I got up from a bow I looked at him, and he spit out his tobacco onto the road, and he looked at me very angrily and said, “What are you doing?” In much harsher words than that. With my infinite arrogance, I told him that I was bowing for world peace. And he spit out some more tobacco and he looked at me again, and he said, “Why?” My infinite arrogance kicked in again, and I said, “So everyone will be peaceful, and the world won’t blow up.” And as soon as those words came out of my mouth, I knew I had made a mistake. And he looked at me, with the sharpest eyes that I’ve ever seen, and said, “Who said they’re going to blow up the world?” And I sat back, like an old car that you see when its tires went flat. And it was me who said they were going to blow up the world. Nobody else. I was bowing, not to bow, but for a desire. Call it spiritual olympics, call it world peace, call it what you want to, but it’s still a big desire, not just to bow.
I don’t really want to explain any more about that story, but I think it relates greatly to what Roshi talked about today. Thank you.